More excited about a Civic EX than my 350Z.... whats wrong with me

"PardonMyFlemish16" (TheCoolKid)
12/28/2014 at 21:41 • Filed to: None

Need a frugal beater. Warning, I have an unhealthy obsession with 1990-1993 Accords. I had 3. They are so beat now though I had to get out the game you feel me.

Anyways the Z is not good for driving 400 miles a week to commute. Was originally gonna get an MKV GTI, and liked it on the test drive, but the reliability scared me off. Tested an 8G Civic Si, and it was cool, but with the tickets I racked up this year, I gotta chill. And the K20Z in that just begged to be thrashed. That said, I was never a fan of the 2 tier dash, but after sitting in it I really liked it. Interior felt pretty high quality and the layout was straightforward. Visibility was excellent as well. I'm a big fan. Only thing I didn't like, strangely, was the shift linkage. Honda usually gets that right. It didn't have the precision I expect from them. Action in the linkage was a little sloppy, and the forward gates had less space between them than the back ones. It was weird.

For the hell of it, they had a same year Civic LX 5M, so I took that out. Nowhere near as fun as the Si, but it kept a lot of what I liked. The EX strikes the balance, and is super Jalop in its rareness. EX, 5 speed, gray interior is hard as hell to find. I found one 100 miles away that's black and CPO. I'm looking forward to $20 fillups and way more relaxing commutes.

Dont get me wrong though.... coilovers and intakes are in the future. Another problem with the Z is mods are crazy expensive. A suspension up to my standards would be $2000 when it's all said and done. For that money I could do everything I want to the Civic- suspension, brakes, I/H/E, maybe 17" wheels if I find a used OEM bargain. Will be nice to be able to rotate tires too and only have to replace 2 at a time. Looking forward to it.

O yea, the CB Accords. These Civics are the modern incarnation. Same HP, slightly lower weight, same wheelbase. Perfect footprint for a sedan IMO. The R18 is not as versatile or mod friendly as the F22A, but it gets the job done, and more importantly is literally begging to be turbocharged. More on that later though.....

DISCUSSION (18)

SlickMcRick > PardonMyFlemish16
12/28/2014 at 21:46

As long as you don't jump into that Civic with plans to build it up you're good to go. Is it a sedan or coupe?

Nobi > PardonMyFlemish16
12/28/2014 at 21:49

As a former Honda dealership tech, I say go for it. Those year Civics are pretty reliable. The only issues I remember off the top of my head are stock radios can crap out, and check the rear upper suspension links for a "C" either stamped into the metal or painted on. If you don't have one, you might run into rear tire wear issues. It's a bulletin that any good Honda dealer will fix for free if you show proof that your tires were worn funny.

PardonMyFlemish16 > SlickMcRick
12/28/2014 at 21:51

Sedan. I need 4 doors.

I'm not gonna build it up all the way, but I do like to change the suspension and do some minor mods on cars I buy.

Jay Lauer > PardonMyFlemish16
12/28/2014 at 22:03

Why not get a Mazda 3?

They're dead reliable and are a lot of fun with the stick. The shifter's super rubbery, but it's significantly cheaper than the Civic.

I had one for two years. All I ever had to do was oil changes.

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > PardonMyFlemish16
12/28/2014 at 22:04

sedan>coupe always!

PS9 > PardonMyFlemish16
12/28/2014 at 22:07

Yo son, we can totally hook up dat Civic so's you don't need no 3-fiddy-Zee! Slap a turbo on dat bish and tune to 500 WHP and STILL get 40 MPG, no lie! You'll be ripping 1/4s and 9 seconds or less, and no V8 anywhere will be able to challenge you. Hope you ready for all dat mad tail you'll be cutting down at da club once da ladeez hear about your phat ass civic, yo!

Alright, let's get started. Gonna need to overnight some parts from japan to build this beast right...

(I'm sorry. I couldn't resist.)

dogisbadob > PardonMyFlemish16
12/28/2014 at 22:17

There is nothing wrong with you. The Civic has VTEC which the old Accord lacked. That's the most important thing ever. There is plenty of aftermarket support, as the Civic is the most-modified car ever.

Oh also, Honda finally figured out where to put the oil filter on their engines; the R18's filter is on the bottom and very easy to replace. Older Hondas had it on the side facing back, so you'd get oil all over the axles and overall really messy.

The 16-inch wheels on that car also have plenty of options because 205/55-16 is a very common size. Also, the maintenance minder is awesome.

I'm surprised you haven't considered the 94-97 Accord, just as much support as the 90-93's with just a little bit more modernity.

PardonMyFlemish16 > Jay Lauer
12/28/2014 at 22:26

I thought about it. I would want an 09+ hatch. Those are hard as hell to find and more expensive than the Civic I want. I should probably drive the sedan. Sedan to sedan I prefer the looks of the Civic a lot more in and out.

Jay Lauer > PardonMyFlemish16
12/28/2014 at 22:39

Yeah, I haven't tried out that style of Mazda 3. I had an 05 manual hatch for mine, and it was great. I know that style can be had easy for about $6k.

Steve in Manhattan > PardonMyFlemish16
12/28/2014 at 22:43

What's the year (for an R18?) where the design was so poorly received they had to immediately redesign it? If those are cheap, that might be the way to go.

That Bastard Kurtis - An Attempt to Standardize My Username Across Platforms > PardonMyFlemish16
12/28/2014 at 23:30

We're gonna need to start an Oppo Civic Club. Adults only, no rice. Opposite Civics would be an appropriate name...since we'd be the opposite of your stereotypical Civic driver.

The best mileage I had ever gotten in any car I've ever owned was 22mpg on a long highway trip. I just got 30mpg around town with my 7th gen. Good times.

D > PardonMyFlemish16
12/28/2014 at 23:42

My fam's got a 2-dr EX auto coupe. I really like it, and could only imagine how awesome it would be with a stick. It's got some of the best seats in the business too. Woofer too. Nice little package.

SlickMcRick > That Bastard Kurtis - An Attempt to Standardize My Username Across Platforms
12/29/2014 at 00:00

I got about 38-42 MPG in my 2013 Civic.

gergey - Wishes vette was Datsun > PardonMyFlemish16
12/30/2014 at 05:41

I'm somehow glad I'm not the only person who got a 350Z and then was disappointed. Makes me miss my Celica

timgray > PardonMyFlemish16
12/30/2014 at 06:14

Crazy expensive and $2000? Dude, that is normal prices. Anything that is aftermarket and performance is expensive. Upgrading the Civic to racing adjustable shocks and struts will easily run $2000. Absolutely add a tower stiffener, the front end is a wet noodle. Also upgrade the anti-sway bar right away.

My last set of tires cost $1000 and I did not buy top of the line but middle of the road performance. Add in a set of very light rims and you have hit $3000 for the wheels to make that civic come alive by losing nearly 40 pounds of unsprung weight. Stock Civic wheels are fat and heavy. Oh if it's an 09, go get the rear trailing arms recall done or your tires will not last 600 miles before they start cupping.

Add another $4500 for a low boost turbo kit (6psi no intercooler) and it becomes one hell of a fun car on and off the track.

PardonMyFlemish16 > timgray
12/30/2014 at 07:07

Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa. No no no no no.

What suspension and tires are you talking about? How often are you tracking your car to have race grade components?

Lets compare identical suspension setups on both cars. Swift Springs and Koni Yellows. Quality stuff all around.

On the Civic, the springs and shocks cost about $300+650. Rear camber kit is like $100 and front camber kit is about the same and optional. So call it $1150 altogether with an alignment if you do the install yourself.

On the Z, the shocks cost an additional $250. Camber kits are pretty much compulsory for ANY drop, to be done at a respectable standard, and for the Z I think front and rears are about $400-500. So now you are talking $1800, not far off from the $2K I said, for springs and shocks (not even coilovers). GC does not make anything for the Zs. And lowering the Z in general is dubious as it is essentially a G35 lowered 2 inches. It's already at the limits. My Z is at the shop now for an inspection, and it turns out my rear wheels are out of spec for camber. Mind you, from what I know, my car is bone stock. So it must have hit a pothole or something and bent an arm (which will be expensive as hell to replace).

Plus also keep in mind, that $1150 setup for the Civic is expensive. You can get a decent suspension for the Civic for $600-700 (OEM HFP, Skunk2 Pro-C, Swift Springs and Koni STR.T etc), widening the gulf even further. OK, for the track these might not be enough, but I'm not tracking the car more than once a year, if that.

For tires, again, Civic has the advantage. I can get 235/45 17s for about 20% less than the 225/245 45 18s I need on my Z for the same tire. And I'm finding decent enough tires for $500 or so... not sure what tires or website you are looking at.

So no, cost of parts for these cars is far from comparable. Civic enjoys the benefits of lighter weight, simpler suspension design, higher economies of scale etc. etc. than the Z, which leads to higher availability and lower prices for parts. Not to mention, Civic is lower in the totem pole in Honda's lineup than the Z is in Nissan's. So stuff like OEM BBKs are super cheap comparatively. Etc. etc.

PardonMyFlemish16 > gergey - Wishes vette was Datsun
12/30/2014 at 07:08

Its a good car in its element, but on the street its like having a 10" dick and only being able to use 5" of it

PardonMyFlemish16 > Jay Lauer
04/30/2016 at 21:40

I rented a current gen 3 for a few days. It kind of sucked